Re: <nettime> the silence on the rising fascism / non-violence

[Frédéric Neyrat via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Hi Andreas,

Yes, shame can be a very good way to produce a form of consciousness, of
acknowledgement of a terrible event, like the one that happened on the 7th
of October, you're right. Shame, and/or guilt, compassion, disgust, many
possibilities.

However, it's strange that you quote, from transplanet.org, only the one
thing that *seems* to support your claim (why not
https://www.trans-planet.org/abolishing-the-world-order-in-a-radical-ceasefire
or the poem of Lewis Freedman that we published
https://www.trans-planet.org/inaugural-harm or the originary call there:
https://www.trans-planet.org/a-call-to-rise-for-peace)

Let me also add that you put in your translation a term that is *not* in
the French text, the term "murder," "*meurtre*" in French - maybe you
wanted to say "violence"? (but that's the same term in French).

So yes, as you said, difficult to "contribute to a conversation" like this
one. But we need to! I need to assume that you were *not* dishonest but,
like me, worried, desperate, crying, in pain, and angry and then desperate
etc. I need, we need to think of a way to interrupt the circle of death!

My best,

Frédéric
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On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 9:50 AM Andreas Broeckmann via nettime-l <
nettime-l@lists.nettime.org> wrote:

> Am 18.12.23 um 01:23 schrieb podinski via nettime-l:
>  >
>  > the silences ( here in Berlin and DE especially ) are really
>  > disturbing ! and shameful !
>
> pod, i understand the irritation and the agitation, though it is perhaps
> not so difficult to comprehend the general situation in berlin if you
> take the history of the past 75 (+3+12+15+4+43+x) years into
> consideration.* which perhaps doesn't make the current situation less
> disturbing, but the dilemma more understandable that many find
> themselves in.
>
> as regards the discussion here on the list, it's hard for me personally
> to contribute to conversations that go like this one. where the meek
> fear of antisemitism is equalised with a call to murder, and where
> differentiation of place and event is extrapolated into global analysis.
> - see two examples below. (one comes from trans-planet.org that Frédéric
> pointed us to: i respect the thinking that leads to these opinions, but
> where to start a conversation that is headlined by "the interdiction of
> the event with Judith Butler ... is an interdiction of peace ... and is
> the promotion of war ... and murder"?)
>
> i have an inkling that a careful conversation about shame and why people
> feel it (and why other people don't), might be an interesting starting
> point. [who feels shame for the events of 7 October?] - maybe these are
> conversations that one can not easily have in a large, public space.
>
> greetings,
> -a
>
> PS: as regards the case of the Oyoun cultural centre in berlin, i
> recommend to also read up on the history of the "Werkstatt der
> Kulturen", and to recap the political changes in berlin since the 2016
> and the february 2023 elections. for some of the political
> decision-makers, the current situation might only be a pretext (in which
> case the political campaign to save Oyoun's funding might have to be
> recalibrated).
>
> * The German Minister of Economics, Robert Habeck of the Green Party,
> explained in November, some weeks after the pogrom of 7 October, the
> basics of an attitude which is complicated, not easy:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZvkkpJaVI
>
>
> Am 18.12.23 um 08:11 schrieb Frédéric Neyrat via nettime-l:
> >
> > Indeed, which civility should "speak"? Maybe the one of a planetary
> > ceasefire, rethinking non-violence at its roots (MLK, Gandhi, J. Butler's
> > latest book, "The Force of non-violence," see also the 7th chapter of
> > Robinson's Black Marxism). We're working on this with some friends:
> > https://www.trans-planet.org/ (texts in French and English:
>
> "L’interdiction de la rencontre publique « Contre l’antisémitisme, son
> instrumentalisation et pour la paix révolutionnaire en Palestine », où
> Judith Butler devait parler au nom de Jewish Voice for Peace, est
> l’expression d’un vœu profond : interdire la paix.
> Interdire la paix est promouvoir la guerre.
> Promouvoir la guerre est appeler à la violence :
> la violence pour maintenir un ordre injuste, pour mener des guerres à
> l’extérieur et pour assurer l’ordre intérieur par la brutalité policière.
> Leur pacification s’appelle la mort."
>
>
> > Re: the silence on the rising fascism
> > by Brian Holmes via nettime-l
> >
> > Similar to Germany, the center left and right have come together in the
> US
> > to seal off any public discussion about the war, despite polls showing
> that
> > a majority is against sending arms to massacre Palestinians. Meanwhile
> the
> > big discussion in the press is literally about dictatorship, how much
> > dictatorship would be possible under a second Trump presidency. It's
> eerie,
> > because at the same time you have Milei assuming power in Argentina and
> > devaluing the peso by 51% on the first day, with his security minister
> > saying that previously existing restraints will be abandoned, police on
> the
> > street will carry live rounds and protests will be confined to the
> > sidewalk. That's a recipe for a social explosion on a very short
> timeline.
> > In short this is the heaviest atmosphere I ever lived through in the
> > Americas.
> >
> > It seems that climate change, the Russo-Chinese challenge to US hegemony,
> > and at the same time, boundary-busting technological innovations and
> > twisted perspectives of yet another capitalist growth binge have all
> opened
> > up a nihilistic sense of the need for states and elites to make a move.
> The
> > geopolitical crisis and paradigm shift that Armin Medosch and I were so
> > keen to analyze a decade ago is happening now. It's already on a huge
> scale
> > and it could get bigger. At the same time I think civil society has only
> > begun to speak, and there is an incredible amount to be said. The Empire
> > itself is naked barbarism. What are we gonna do?
> --
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