Allan Siegel on Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:41:02 +0100 (CET)


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Re: <nettime> Moving Nettime to the Fediverse 

Hello,
I think Andreas suggestion could be useful; for example if I use just the Mastodon app to log-in then the user experience is different then if I log in using Pinafore from my browser. In Pinafore you can switch from the Nettime instance to other instances, i.e. @writingexchange or @newsie.social 

hope this helps

best

allan


On 12/15/22 18:18, nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Moving Nettime to the Fediverse (Andreas Broeckmann)
    2. Re: Moving Nettime to the Fediverse (Geoffrey Goodell)
    3. Moving Nettime (Michael Benson)
    4. Re: Moving Nettime (Molly Hankwitz)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:27:17 +0100
From: Andreas Broeckmann <ab@mikro.in-berlin.de>
To: Geoffrey Goodell <goodell@oxonia.net>, "nettime-l@mail.kein.org"
	<nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Moving Nettime to the Fediverse
Message-ID: <7eb8384a-a84c-456f-8e25-c1ac45d510a3@mikro.in-berlin.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Folks,

Maybe, more productively, and as Allan has suggested, people can write
small reports here about how (exactly) they are using the new Mastodon
instance, and what their experiences are. I'd find that useful, and
maybe it's a good time to learn and play together.

Regards,
-a


PS: Geoff, excuse my bluntness, but I think that the tone of your
posting is completely inappropriate. Even for people who don't know the
moderators personally, it must be clear that their commitment to the
list and the project of Nettime is and has been substantial, and to put
that in question in the form that you do here is in itself, for me, a
mark of self-disqualification.

Just two things: I suggest that you strike through the word "we" in your
posting and reconsider again who this acting subject might actually be;
there is certainly no "we" here that can "identify", "create", or
"decide". The composition of this 'connective' is much more feeble than
you seem to think. And you are suggesting to send away the people who
have been holding its foundations together, even though you admit to not
knowing what that involves, technically, mentally, socially,
communication-wise. (Maybe apply for an internship?)

Secondly, it may look like it for you, but Nettime is not and probably
never will be an institution. It was much closer to that status 20 years
ago. Its rules of operation are therefore different.

-a


Am 15.12.22 um 10:53 schrieb Geoffrey Goodell:

Dear Allan and all,

The wishful thinking on the part of the list maintainers was:

(a) that they would be forgiven for growing weary of running the service; AND

(b) that they would also continue to enjoy the self-gratification from
volunteering to provide infrastructure support to the community.

The inconvenient reality is that they cannot have both (a) and (b).

So, I suggest that we identify new list maintainers; after all, we all knew
that time for a successor would eventually come.  If this is just a matter of
configuring and running mailman3 on one of my mail servers, then I am happy to
do it myself, although I suspect that there are others here who are more
appropriate for the task.

Suggest that we create a committee of volunteers to receive the knowledge of
how to run the list (e.g.: the list of email addresses and their settings, the
mailman configuration files, the historical archive, and so on) and decide who
should do what.  Whether or not this makes some people uncomfortable, Nettime
has become a de facto institution and requires an institutional approach.

Best wishes --

Geoff


On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 10:07:16AM +0100, Allan Siegel wrote:
  > Dear All,
  >
  > I think Mastodon has certain things going for it but the experience
is very
  > different from the Nettime LIST...
  >
  > The group who orchestrated the change in environments should have
prepared
  > users for the change and described a framework on how this change could
  > work. To suddenly basically dissolve one community and imagine it
will just
  > reappear someplace else involves some wishful thinking.
  >
  > best
  >
  > allan
  >


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 11:53:25 +0000
From: Geoffrey Goodell <goodell@oxonia.net>
To: Andreas Broeckmann <ab@mikro.in-berlin.de>
Cc: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" <nettime-l@mail.kein.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Moving Nettime to the Fediverse
Message-ID: <Y5sKtbAL534q6q/x@oxonia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear Andreas,

I respectfully disagree with your characterisation of my remarks.

For the avoidance of doubt, I believe that the list maintainers do wish to
support the community, which is precisely why I believe that they will share
the information needed to preserve continuity of the list with their
successors.

Best wishes --

Geoff

On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 12:27:17PM +0100, Andreas Broeckmann wrote:

Folks,

Maybe, more productively, and as Allan has suggested, people can write small
reports here about how (exactly) they are using the new Mastodon instance,
and what their experiences are. I'd find that useful, and maybe it's a good
time to learn and play together.

Regards,
-a


PS: Geoff, excuse my bluntness, but I think that the tone of your posting is
completely inappropriate. Even for people who don't know the moderators
personally, it must be clear that their commitment to the list and the
project of Nettime is and has been substantial, and to put that in question
in the form that you do here is in itself, for me, a mark of
self-disqualification.

Just two things: I suggest that you strike through the word "we" in your
posting and reconsider again who this acting subject might actually be;
there is certainly no "we" here that can "identify", "create", or "decide".
The composition of this 'connective' is much more feeble than you seem to
think. And you are suggesting to send away the people who have been holding
its foundations together, even though you admit to not knowing what that
involves, technically, mentally, socially, communication-wise. (Maybe apply
for an internship?)

Secondly, it may look like it for you, but Nettime is not and probably never
will be an institution. It was much closer to that status 20 years ago. Its
rules of operation are therefore different.

-a


Am 15.12.22 um 10:53 schrieb Geoffrey Goodell:

Dear Allan and all,

The wishful thinking on the part of the list maintainers was:

(a) that they would be forgiven for growing weary of running the service; AND

(b) that they would also continue to enjoy the self-gratification from
volunteering to provide infrastructure support to the community.

The inconvenient reality is that they cannot have both (a) and (b).

So, I suggest that we identify new list maintainers; after all, we all knew
that time for a successor would eventually come.  If this is just a matter of
configuring and running mailman3 on one of my mail servers, then I am happy to
do it myself, although I suspect that there are others here who are more
appropriate for the task.

Suggest that we create a committee of volunteers to receive the knowledge of
how to run the list (e.g.: the list of email addresses and their settings, the
mailman configuration files, the historical archive, and so on) and decide who
should do what.  Whether or not this makes some people uncomfortable, Nettime
has become a de facto institution and requires an institutional approach.

Best wishes --

Geoff


On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 10:07:16AM +0100, Allan Siegel wrote:

Dear All,

I think Mastodon has certain things going for it but the experience is

very

different from the Nettime LIST...

The group who orchestrated the change in environments should have prepared
users for the change and described a framework on how this change could
work. To suddenly basically dissolve one community and imagine it will

just

reappear someplace else involves some wishful thinking.

best

allan



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 11:50:01 -0500
From: Michael Benson <kinpix2001@gmail.com>
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
Subject: <nettime> Moving Nettime
Message-ID:
	<CAF3eCHFd09VDojCegrpPXz28fmqttc7mBu-m5b+vQmfnwBKnSA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

'ello everyone, some thoughts on moving Nettime, for what they're worth.

Email is indeed associated with a given timeframe of net evolution, but it
has also kind of established and entrenched itself as the legitimate
successor to the snail, for better or worse. It will always be there (ok,
always is a long time, but it definitely remains at the backbone or among
the chief arteries of whatever online means, even now; in any case, there's
little sign that it will be replaced), whereas jumping in the general
direction of Mastodon when Mastodon only ten minutes ago entered the
conversation runs real risks of marking a kind of end point or extinction
of the nettime idea. Such as it is. Mastodons are associated with going
extinct, after all, among other things.

Why knows if Mastodon will in fact be the successor of Twitter? Jury's out.

Also I agree with Andreas regarding apprehension that nettime could end up
accessible primarily via doom scrolling, that could indeed spell doom, or
anyway so I think, evidently in agreement with him.

There is a manner by which topics arrive in modular fashion and are debated
in nettime and then kind of recede in the rearview mirror but are ever
susceptible to revival via a new spin or turn that I fear might be
sacrificed if an ostensibly more "frictionless" mode of discussion is
found. Sometimes friction slows speed which in turn helps expedite more
nuanced discussion. We're living in a world of "hot takes," self-evidently
are the antithesis of what nettime's been up to for decades.

My (temperate, I hope) take.

(FYI none of the above was written, passed through, massaged, or otherwise
associated with ChatGPT. But we may all end up in a zoo anyway.)

Best from Ottawa!

Michael
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 09:18:15 -0800
From: Molly Hankwitz <mollyhankwitz@gmail.com>
To: Michael Benson <kinpix2001@gmail.com>
Cc: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> Moving Nettime
Message-ID: <E0FC8CDB-25BD-42B6-B418-67671D4E3F9B@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear nettime emailers and posters!

This is such a good description of email list experience! (See below) Michael has nailed it and it?s this kind of experience that is exactly why there will also be another generation of readers and writers who prefer email to platform!  Let us think about them?not those who insist that doom-scrolling mode/hot take brain activity is the way of the future. Books still exist. **Some** students still read them, and for those in that slow-brainpower league, e-mail will be a virtue, not a lapse in deterministic consciousness.

Michael wrote:

? topics arrive in modular fashion and are debated in nettime and then kind of recede in the rearview mirror but are ever susceptible to revival via a new spin or turn that I fear might be sacrificed if an ostensibly more "frictionless" mode of discussion is found. Sometimes friction slows speed which in turn helps expedite more nuanced discussion. We're living in a world of "hot takes,"?

Warmly
Molly


On Dec 15, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Michael Benson <kinpix2001@gmail.com> wrote:

?
'ello everyone, some thoughts on moving Nettime, for what they're worth.

Email is indeed associated with a given timeframe of net evolution, but it has also kind of established and entrenched itself as the legitimate successor to the snail, for better or worse. It will always be there (ok, always is a long time, but it definitely remains at the backbone or among the chief arteries of whatever online means, even now; in any case, there's little sign that it will be replaced), whereas jumping in the general direction of Mastodon when Mastodon only ten minutes ago entered the conversation runs real risks of marking a kind of end point or extinction of the nettime idea. Such as it is. Mastodons are associated with going extinct, after all, among other things.

Why knows if Mastodon will in fact be the successor of Twitter? Jury's out.

Also I agree with Andreas regarding apprehension that nettime could end up accessible primarily via doom scrolling, that could indeed spell doom, or anyway so I think, evidently in agreement with him.

There is a manner by which topics arrive in modular fashion and are debated in nettime and then kind of recede in the rearview mirror but are ever susceptible to revival via a new spin or turn that I fear might be sacrificed if an ostensibly more "frictionless" mode of discussion is found. Sometimes friction slows speed which in turn helps expedite more nuanced discussion. We're living in a world of "hot takes," self-evidently are the antithesis of what nettime's been up to for decades.

My (temperate, I hope) take.

(FYI none of the above was written, passed through, massaged, or otherwise associated with ChatGPT. But we may all end up in a zoo anyway.)

Best from Ottawa!

Michael


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