Alan Sondheim on Mon, 4 Nov 2019 15:29:23 +0100 (CET)


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Re: <nettime> Facebook




On Mon, 4 Nov 2019, mp wrote:

On 03/11/2019 20:36, Alan Sondheim wrote:

The loss is more important to me

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
1/ FB enables to create a "community," that's good for sure;?
2/ but in the same time, it destroys?the condition of the possibility of
community/togetherness/Gemeinwesen/?tre-ensemble, etc.

Individual, particular and hence relatively short term perspective and
context (Alan's) vs. collective, abstract and hence relatively long term
perspective and context (Frederic's).

A common disjuncture.


What disturbs me here is the assumption of passivity "relatively short term perspective" for example. Unless you know my work, read my posts, etc., you have no idea how long my perspective is. I've run talkers, a MOO, conferencing in IRC years ago, CuSeeMe, and on and on. I've taught courses in internet culture from 1995 on. And one of the things that keeps me generally from posting on nettime, is its own toxicity, these constant presumptions about one another, about the world, etc. And re: below, there is no "on the one hand, on the other hand" - the issue is far more complex as is people's usage of Fb or other platforms (for example email lists themselves). So "email is also shit"?

I know a hell of a lot of free jazz musicians who work through Fb, fight racism, and take advantage of the platform. I know people who have found community on Fb that is absent for them in rl. I've participated in courses taught on Fb. I've engaged in political action on the platform. I don't expect purity anywhere; I never have. And one person's purity can be another person's hell. I'm appalled at Fb's policies but also given that the platform has between 1 and 2.4 billion users, the sociality is far greater (and far more diverse and interesting) than its public image.

Alan


It is a complex issue. On the one hand it makes sense to adjust your
means to the ends you desire. Be the change you want to see and all that.

On the other hand, it could be seen as a form of neoliberalisation when
the responsibility for the future of the system is distributed to
individuals - and at the end of the day, it is impossible to live in
this planetary urbanisation without acting in destructive ways, so we
all have to cut corners. Email is also shit for the web of life we are
entangled in.

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