carlais on Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:41:51 -0500

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Syndicate: matter and mind?

Dear Trevor,

Thank you for you answers and questions. To talk with you has been very
ilustrative. But considering that my English is not good, and that I will
not be able to continue this conversation to more complex  matters, I will
have to say good bye.

But before I will try to say something more, related with what we are
talking.... Hoping that my English will help me to say what I want to say....

...I'm going to tell you a personal experience:

12 years ago I went to the Universidad Central del Ecuador, a public
University located in Quito, to study Art. I have no idea why I decided to
do that, however, I was there just for one year. The reason?: My mind was
intriged with philosophical questions reason why I left the faculty. I went
to another University to study Philosophy. After  being there I found that
Art was not philosophy, was not being, was not mind, was not explanation.
So after two years I left this faculty too.

Some questions I had where resolved at this time, so I took and airplane
and went to Brazil, country in wich I made a career in Arts.
Ironically I never was worry of having a career... and the reason why I
left my country was just my interest in what Art was at that time for me.
And what Art was for me?: Art was Life. 

Considering that I never asked for what life was, I should say that my work
was reflecting this question in a non-conscious way. I have an extensive
work with Performance Art. Medium that I met some years ago when I saw a
brazilian group of theater called "Terreira da Tribu."
With Performance I learned something from life, and life gave me some
instruments for Performance. However I do not consider that Performance and
Life have something to do.  Because I know that is just my intention what
makes a performance what it is, and life what it is. For me they are two
different subjects.

We where talking about Art and Life. The relationship between each other...
Taking into account all the considerations on this specific matter, what
conclusion could we take?

If Art has any relation with life, then has not sense to try to understand
Art. And you are right when you say that " if we understand our art through
our life -and our life through our art then our understanding will show us
the way. If not, we will not be able to understand Art, and we will not
understand life, and will remain confused for ever."

So does not make sense to talk about it!? ... Maybe just if you, me or any
other wants to confuse us using everything and/or nothing with any intention. 


Well I was not going to answers this, but I think it is important, and I
will take the risk of using my Englsih.

>One cannot learn to ride a bicycle by sitting on the ground asking how is it
>possible to ride a bicycle.

Right. but the same One can create a bycicle without never have seen one.

>cars can be dangerous too and even they grow up and change as the years go by

Are you comparing Art as an ideology with the mas production of cars? Do
cars have an ideology? Is Art like a simple car ...a colored Mercedez may be?

>If we can taste of bread is good to eat or not then we need no definition of
>bread beyond "that which tastes nutricious"

Just senses and feelings?

>Ah my friend -you take "language" to literally.
>music is language, image is language, the world is language
>the language of silence
>the language of bees
>the language of trees
>the language of art

Yes, right. I'm taking language as language.
I ask you: How can you understand silence? It is because first you have the
silence as language?
If silence not depends on language, how can you talk about silence?

Maybe this will sound innocent but, how can you understan bees with no
language? Sure they have a language, but you understand them just because
you use human language. So bees use your language to say what they need or
want to say.

Can bees, or trees talk?

>How can French be a language if we do not understand what French is?

Just because others speak French. This is not the same case with bees. They
do  not speak to us! Tell if I'm wrong... A lot of research has been made
to know if animals have a language, and nothing has being proved to mainain
a solid theory about this (should you inform me if I'm wrong, please!).

French people speaks French, but they know how to speak, and they are
humans. They are not objetcs as a tree.
Art has not an autonomical language. It exists just because we speak art
.....Art can not speak to us

>We use language for nothing


>If what you say is wrong -then experience will correct it
>If you say nothing -then there is nothing to be corrected

Here we could remember the process of transference in wich nothing is said.
Is something to be corrected in this proces or after this process, or before?
I think the answer will be afirmative.

>Is it your love of dichotomies that makes you scared to embrace them?

Maybe yes, maybe not... Maybe is because I have seen a lot of mistakes
coming from dichotomies.

>Perhaps dichotomy is the mother of aesthetics -but who could be the father?


>In a state of "being" there is no object and no subject, so you must use  an
>"ontological" language and not an "epistomological" one!

You are right. Happens that I do not consider that concept and significance
have a too big empty space between each other.

>Do you need to fall from a mountain to understand it is dangerous?

Maybe what we need is to go to a mountain and talk with Zaratustra. After
that we will see if an abyss its behind the mountain... And we will no fall
if we understand what the mountain and the abyss are....

>Do you shave your mirror in the morning?

Do I have a mirror? Maybe what I have is a phantom taht looks like me every
morning... (and he does what he wants).

>There is no "beyond mind and matter"
>Metaphysics are in the minds of men, formed in our brain -the remarkable
>that transforms matter into mind -so the mind can be used to control matter.

It is God a question of matter and mind? If so, what is the reason for
It is Art a question of matter and mind? If so, what is the reason for


Damian Toro
Independent Artists

Telefax.: 593-2-898289 / 897972
Po Box 17-07 8983
Quito - Ecuador -
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