Case Roole on Tue, 14 May 2002 01:04:02 +0200 (CEST)

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Re: [Nettime-nl] het buitenlands begrip van fortuyn

On Tuesday 14 May 2002 00:33, yoyo enzo wrote:
> ik heb m'n twijfels
> over het idee dat men het verschijnsel fortuyn
> in het buitenland wel helemaal kan volgen
> zie het volgende artikel uit een engelse krant
> (waarvan de auteur even is kwijtgeraakt, mijn excuus)

"Only the Dutch could have a gay sociologist fascist"
by Mark Steel
The Independent, 9 mei 2002


> yoyo
> He has to be one of the unluckiest people in history, that dead Dutchman.
> To make a career out of slagging off Islam and then be gunned down by an
> animal rights activist. Of all the people that might have taken out a fatwa
> against him, I bet he never expected the League Against Fur Coats. Itīs as
> if it turned out that Mussolini was strung up by a bunch of Mods, who then
> said "Was he a fascist? We had no idea, we just canīt stand skinheads."
> If the assassin had turned out to be a Muslim, the incident would have been
> used as further evidence of the need for a war against terror. So to be
> consistent, Americaīs "axis of evil" should now include Iraq, Iran, North
> Korea and the Vegan Wholefood Fruit and Bean Collective, commencing with a
> series of Vulcan bomber raids over this yearīs Glastonbury Festival.
> The murder is further complicated by the fact that only the Dutch could
> have a fascist leader who was a gay sociologist. Maybe he was trying to
> build a liberal, inclusive fascism, dreaming of the day he could announce
> to his followers "and now, after a hard afternoonīs goose-stepping, letīs
> relax, massage each otherīs shoulders and get rid off all that tension
> before invading a neighbouring country."
> His sexuality has been cited as one of the reasons that he couldnīt have
> been a fascist, but the far right seems capable of gliding over these
> contradictions. If Hitler had been gay, the only difference to history
> would have been the uniforms, when heīd thrown a strop and yelled, "Brown
> shirts and jackboots? Have you no sense of colour co-ordination".
> Almost every news item has insisted that "Professor Pim" couldnīt be
> labelled in the same bracket as the rest of the European far right. Much of
> the coverage has insisted he was simply flamboyant, popular, breaking the
> predictable mould and quite liberal really, certainly not a racist. Every
> television report told us he was popular with many black people, and you
> half expected them to continue, "There was no one he loved more than the
> Muslims. Look at that bow tie he wore, he was virtually a member of the
> Nation of Islam."
> The media also seems to have fallen for the modern racistsī trick, as the
> main evidence of those suggesting that his party wasnīt racist is that he
> said it wasnīt racist. Maybe this should apply to other areas of reporting.
> "Our investigations prove that the man convicted of murder canīt have
> carried out the crime, because we asked him īare you a murderer?ī and he
> went out of his way to say īNoī."
> But Pim Fortuyn did try to build a movement around the demand to halt
> immigration, particularly against Muslims, whose religion he regularly
> described as sick and backward. In some areas, he complained, Dutch people
> "no longer hear their own language." When did the Dutch start complaining
> about this? The whole point of being Dutch is to speak 40 languages.
> Everything in Amsterdam is in English or German, so why didnīt he complain
> about that? It seems there were only certain foreign languages he objected
> to, connected to the race of the people speaking them.
> "Holland is full," was his favourite slogan. Whenever someone says a
> country is "full", I imagine they see the place as a nightclub, in need of
> bouncers who scowl at the queue to get in, occasionally saying, "Right,
> Iīve just heard thereīs been a couple of cremations so Iīll let two of you
> in. Just two – you, get back." Europe has double the population it had 100
> years ago, so at what point was each bit "full"? But a country is only
> deemed full to certain people. No one complains about the number of
> Australians or Americans living in Europe. And most people move to another
> place at some point in their life. When I moved from Kent to south London,
> which is more "full" than Holland, no one demanded that I moved back,
> yelling, "Thereīs no room, anyway we donīt want your funny ways, watching
> cricket and growing hops all over the place. We drink lager here, not
> bitter, because multi-culturalism doesnīt work."
> Itīs true that Le Pen didnīt like Fortuyn, but then Mussolini didnīt like
> Hitler. And one clue as to whether Fortuynīs appeal revolved around racism
> was the chant of crowds of his supporters after his death – "Pim was our
> Hitler." Now why would they have yelled that? Was it a) because they were
> attracted to his racism which, they felt, was as strident as that of
> Hitler. Or b) because they have been misinformed and believe Hitler to have
> been a gay sociologist?
> His assassin hasnīt done anything to solve the problem of racism, but that
> doesnīt mean his target wasnīt a racist. And it may turn out that Fortuynīs
> party does better than ever in the elections as a result. In which case you
> can expect Blair to make a visit to John Prescott one week before the next
> election, and say "John – thereīs something I want you to do for the party
> – it involves a bit of sacrifice but itīs for the good of the democratic
> process..."
> --- "Guusbert van der Tak" <> wrote:
> >Beste Marius van Dam,
> >
> >Ga jij maar fijn een zwarte lijst bijhouden terwijl ze in het buitenland
> > wel de ontwikkelingen rondom pim fortuyn begrijpen. Gelukkig maar
> > overigens, want het zou niet veel goeds doen voor de pr van nederland als
> > zoveel mensen uitlopen voor een "extreem rechtse politicus", the Dutch
> > Devil.
> >
> >regards,
> >
> >Felicia
> >
> >
> >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:11:25 +0200
> >Subject: Re: [Nettime-nl] Re: Beste schrijvers...
> From: Marius van Dam <>
> >To: <>
> >
> >on 12/5/02 01:02, ReindeR Rustema at
> > wrote=
> >
> >>Ik kreeg trouwens nota bene uit Frankrijk een tekst toegestuurd van
> >>Adam Curry (ze kennen hem daar niet) die zich kwaad heeft gemaakt
> >>over het feit dat onze Pim onterecht overal in het buitenland als
> >>extreem-rechts werd neergezet. Beetje warrig geschreven overigens,
> >>maar het staat op onder 'The Big Lie'
> >>van 9 mei. Curry keert zich steeds meer af van televisie, dat is nu
> >>wel duidelijk.
> >
> >Ik stuitte enkele dagen geleden ook al op dit monster van een 'artikel'.
> >Misschien interessant te melden dat curry hierin aangeeft dat hij zich
> >eventueel aan wil sluiten bij LPF om zo zijn ICT kennis beschikbaar te
> >stellen.
> >Toen Nederland nog een land was van gematigde politiek, niet zo lang
> >geleden, was het niet van iedereen duidelijk waar hij stond. Nu kan ik
> >steeds meer BN-ers op mijn zwarte lijst zetten. (figuurlijk dan h=E8!)
> >Dat geld trouwens ook in het dagelijks leven.
> From : 
> >"Guusbert van der Tak" <> 	 
> >Reply-To : 
> > 	 
> >To : 
> > 	 
> >Subject : 
> >Re: [media-culture] Pim Fortuin 	 
> >Date : 
> >Wed, 08 May 2002 22:34:04 +0000 	 
> > Reply  Reply All  Forward    Delete  	 Printer Friendly Version 	 
> >
> >>From: john O'Hare <>
> >>Reply-To:
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: [media-culture] Pim Fortuin
> >>Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:47:25 +1000
> >>
> >>   In a humane society, any Human being assassinated for their
> >>political views will obviously be martyred.
> >>
> >>I'd rather align myself with this view, than a politic that wishes
> >>people dead just because they don't agree with me!
> >>
> >>No of course the Dutch people are not all right wing, they are being
> >>compassionate & civilized in their response to an act of injustice
> >>within their society!
> >>
> >>John O'Hare
> >>
> >> >The living Dutch devil has died a national hero.
> >> >
> >> >Should one assume that the Dutch are all extreme right-wing -or that
> >> > the media got his image seriously wrong?
> >> >
> >> >trevor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >To unsubscribe, email
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> >
> >>
> >>--
> >>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> >>
> >>John O'Hare
> >>Head of Acting and Technical Production
> >>Creative Industries Acting
> >>Ph: 07-3864-3221, fax: 3864-5782
> >>Mob: 0419 494 371
> >>
> >>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> >
> >It's unbelieveble that in foreign countries media keep saying Pim Fortuyn
> >was extreme right wing.  I really wonder where they get this information !
> > I strongle advise them to first  read his books, check out what he stands
> > for and the relation to politcs in the Netherlands. Only then they will
> > see through the false barrier of associations and information, things
> > that are been said about Pim Fortuyn. It's very tragic that everyone
> > keeps calling him extreme right wing, and keeps comparing him to le Pen
> > and Haider. I thing it's a bit stupid and easy to do, because i know they
> > haven't read any of his books (+ know enough about the social and
> > political situation in Holland to place things in the right context) Pim
> > fortuyn certainly doesnt deserve this, to be called a Dutch Devil. I do
> > hope this opinion will be straightened out and corrected someday.
> >
> >Felicia
> >(Holland)
> >
> >
> >Dear Felicia,
> >
> >Guusbert van der Tak wrote:
> >>Pim fortuyn certainly doesnt
> >>deserve this, to be called a Dutch Devil. I do hope this opinion will be
> >>straightened out and corrected someday.
> >
> >I believe that if you read my messages properly then you should realize
> >that my reference to a "Dutch devil" was ironic -and that basically I
> >agree with you.
> >
> >It is indeed a very complex (and interesting) situation. After almost 30
> >years of living here -I have to admit that I dislike Holland intensly.
> >Probably for reasons which are very close to the things which have made
> >Fortuin so popular -an interesting paradox!
> >
> >If things so continue -then I might even get to like it here again.
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >trevor
> >
> >
> >
> >
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