nettime.mailing.list on Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:00:17 +0100 (MET)

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<nettime> Kosovo Thread, Richard, Benson, Simon

[Due to the amount of traffic on this topic - which is welcome - for ease
of use it has for tonight anyway, been compounded into one message./m]

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 10:36:25 +0100
Subject: Re:Kosovo: short reply to all

At 00:15 5-03-98 +0100, ANDREJ TISMA wrote:
>Dear e-mail correspondents,

>Why not political issues on Nettime. Wasn't this net always a little bit
>about politics, reporting about different demonstrations and protests?

Sure, but how controversial and extreem, always interesting and straight.
Your concern about what you are calling terrorism is based upon a very
nationalistic opinion. Which unfortunatelly excists in Servia, but I don't
want to read about on the nettime list; it just doesn't belong here. If
this list is open for the protection of the joys of nationalism I don't
want let my mailbox be a waste box, and will sign off. (This is another
call towards the owners...)

>Or You are against politics just in this case, when You have no
>arguments for Your claims? For me reports of some American and CIA
>influenced organizations and separatist media are not arguments.

This type of arguing is waste of time (see for instance Rodriguez list of
arguments, just to apply some counterpressure). Another time: I am not
interested in discussing with Serbs about nationalist idiology; also the
etnic Albanians in Kosovo seem to lose their patience, as does the
international community. Isn't there somewhere an alt.servb.proud.1392?

>why not Serbian view of things. Don't Serbs, the biggest population in
>Balkans, have the right to tell once their view?

Even your countrymen are begging you not to talk for THE Serbs; and I
really get sick of discussing with people talking in this straight
nationalistic categories. I will not continue this discussion and really
request the owners to intervene in this hopeless and displaced propaganda.



Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:02:35 +0000
Subject: Serbian 'concern'

Re: Serbian concern:

Last night, red-eyed at three-thirty AM, I inadvertently hit 'send'
before adding the last sentence of my message. The correct last
sentence was:

"...The thing that keeps me up at night is that I completely agree
with him. Only not in the way he thinks."

Wouldn't want to leave the impression I'm jumping on Andrej
Tisma's band-wagon. Despite the distinctions of retroactive courtesy.

Best to all,
Michael Benson


From: "Robert Simon" <>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:15:16 +0000
Subject: Proper nettime topics

David S. Bennahum wrote:

> Nettime ought to relate to cyberspace in some way.  If
> there are interesting uses of information technology relating to the
> situation in Kosovo, this would be appropriate to Nettime.  Otherwise,
> let's just start discussing whatever we feel like.

I can't disagree with this strongly enough. The fundamental way
nettime relates to "cyberspace"  (in Kantian terms, nettime's
condition of possibility) is that the discussion is taking place
in/on/over/by virtue of the internet, not that there are people
writing about or discussing "interesting uses of information
technology", possibilities which are available to me [in far
different ways] at my local newspaper stand, or over a conference
telephone line, or over dinner with friends, or by pasting little
notes to a bulletin board.

What is more of an interesting use of information technology than to
(be able to) hear (read) a list participant offer a spontaneous,
non-official, local (self-avowed "Serbian") view (I'm referring to
A. Tisma here) of the situation in Kosovo? And to be offered very
serious critical reponses to this (F. Rodriquez for one); to have
the opportunity to take part in the discussion?

No I don't think nettime should become a list exclusively for
the discussion of regional politics, and I can't imagine
that it will become that. And do most of us read everything posted to
the list anyway? I'm used to seeing lots of different related and
unrelated postings happening here all at once, and I'm always doing
my own filtering.

I doubt if threads concerning tennis or tropical fish would have
much of a life here, list moderators notwithstanding, and I do
support strategic 'official'  intervention against wild flamewars,
fascist propagandizing and protracted, high level noise, not because
I can't ask someone to shut up or use my own delete button, but
because I see a certain minimal and hopefully transparent level of
'official' list maintainence work as being necessary. In this case
however, the postings on Kosovo have remained quite civil and to my
mind informative, on all sides. Moreover, nettime isn't being
monopolized by Kosovo discussions, and the opportunity is always
there to raise some related issues specifically regarding net
practices and possibilites (which is what I'm doing now).

But let's face it, if the list can't on its own keep roughly "on
topic", which is to say, remain viable as a fluid community of shared
interests--whatever these may be--then it is no longer viable as a

Robert Simon

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