| David Garcia on Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:42:14 +0200 (CEST) |
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| Re: <nettime> nettime-l Digest, Vol 141, Issue 66 |
Hi one of the surest signs of a struggling platform is spiraling into meta discussions (nettime anout nettime) what is it and what its for.. a platform doomed to argue endlessly about itself. The mods maybe less interventionist but they still know how to make their presence felt when necessary. And the advice that more familiar voices should take a back seat so that others may feel empowered to "pipe up” did seem to lead to a brief flurry of fresh activity. But there is more to it if we want to blow lightly on the embers to spark it back into life. Sometimes that still happens from time to time but not enough. For my money the best way to change nettime is to contribute pieces of (loosely defined) nettcriticism generously to the list. Maybe even taking the risk of exposing embryoninic slices of books or articles in the process of being writen and the exposure of ideas only partly formed. To take just one example I remember that a number of the ideas of Lev Manovich’s Language of New Media first saw daylight on these pages and evolved a bit through discussion. I may be wrong but my impression is that this happened far more frequently in the early phase when nettimers (perhaps less professionalised) risked using the space as a dry run with critical peers. People these days seem far more protective of their work often holding back to wait for more formal publication settings. There are exceptions and I could be wrong but thats how it feels to me. If I am misreading this and if not then maybe suggest some ways this might be addressed? Moving from the ICT era where we began in the 90s to our world of mobile devices and smart infrastructure and platforms makes something like nettime's a community memory reflective, generous but willing to be critical a space that is MORE not less valuable. But maybe we have use it more experimentaly both in the writing and in how it connects to other platforms. So my ten cents worth is to ask for more generosity, more experiment, more risk taking (perhaps) some curation (in terms of seeking out and requesting contributions)..and please not too much meta-discussion. David Garcia On 30 Jun 2019, at 11:31, Allan <allan@allansiegel.info> wrote: > hello, > Seems Nettimers suffer similar illusions of those entrenched in other forms of social media. Disconnected or detached from face-to-face political processes and programmes linked to the daily activities that change institutions and governments there is an abundance of debates, verbiage and sometimes just utter nonsense. > > What appears necessary is a re-framing of Nettime objectives and upgrading of the discursive tools that could make conversations more relevant and constructive. > > Keep the faith > Allan > On 2019. Jun 30. 12:00 +0200, nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org, wrote: >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nettime-l-owner@mail.kein.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Nettime is in bad shape. Let's see if we can change it. >> (carlo von lynX) >> 2. Re: Nettime is in bad shape. Let's see if we can change it. >> (Molly Hankwitz) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 16:11:47 +0200 >> From: carlo von lynX <lynX@time.to.get.psyced.org> >> To: nettime-l@kein.org >> Subject: Re: <nettime> Nettime is in bad shape. Let's see if we can >> change it. >> Message-ID: <20190629141147.GA30102@lo.psyced.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I'll keep it short as I've said it before some years ago? >> I think the pro-active moderation was the whole specialty >> of nettime, fostering high quality and inclusiveness. Since >> you dropped that (possibly because it was too much work, so >> I'm not blaming) the list slowly lost its focus just as all >> the sociologic research I look into predicted? maybe Pit >> can give it the original pitch back? Hugs from NK, C. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:23:18 -0700 >> From: Molly Hankwitz <mollyhankwitz@gmail.com> >> To: carlo von lynX <lynX@time.to.get.psyced.org> >> Cc: nettime-l@kein.org >> Subject: Re: <nettime> Nettime is in bad shape. Let's see if we can >> change it. >> Message-ID: >> <CAH5TXpxzAE4hHLvdz1TQY1fDYwqMmPG7AOaeg_3PO4HZyBg3yQ@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Carlo and nettime! >> >> Thank you for this, Carlo. I could not agree more, the deliberate effort of >> mods to put material that is provocative and worthy on the list...BUT, it >> may also be, and this is where mods could also help...that the great net >> debates have disappeared or died out. There are new debates, but who is >> framing them relative to networks. >> >> The question comes up more and more - where is the whole idea of networks >> that was once? Answer: sorry, social media has everyone blissed out on >> their own screen. >> >> The great debates that enlivened networks of the 90s, have become muddled >> to the point that "networks" per se don't seem to carry much weight online >> - now its the app, its the website - which don't always reflect a living >> community of net-users as we know...or maybe we are imagining networks >> differently than before and that does not help. Common interests which >> drove the formulation of networks and network 'flows' seem to have been >> replaced by something else. Who is the we of any network now... >> >> I don't know...that was my feeling when I read this. So, yes, we need the >> heavies, maybe...to frame the debates so we can bat our own balls back and >> forth and to and fro on nettime. >> >> Molly >> >> On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 7:12 AM carlo von lynX <lynX@time.to.get.psyced.org> >> wrote: >> >>> I'll keep it short as I've said it before some years ago? >>> I think the pro-active moderation was the whole specialty >>> of nettime, fostering high quality and inclusiveness. Since >>> you dropped that (possibly because it was too much work, so >>> I'm not blaming) the list slowly lost its focus just as all >>> the sociologic research I look into predicted? maybe Pit >>> can give it the original pitch back? Hugs from NK, C. >>> >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20190629/7d48b677/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> >> End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 141, Issue 66 >> ****************************************** > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: