Lorenzo Tripodi on Tue, 7 May 2013 17:07:50 +0200 (CEST)

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Re: <nettime> the leopard 2.0 - nothing changes in italy and the mummy wins (...

On Apr 27, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Jim <jim@citymined.org> wrote:

> I'm a bit at a loss here, cari Italiani, help me out. As anarchist by
> conviction, I think every initiative that wrests power from those who
> usurp it to then distribute it, should be welcomed. I also think that
> a future democracy will have to use the spread and speed of
> computer-mediated and online technology to tap into the skills and
> experiences [or wisdom] of the crowd. [City Mine(d) is about to start
> experimenting with what we call "augmented democracy" at a local
> level, but liquid democracy or delegative democracy are much further
> developed]. Seen from London, the difference in strategy between
> Pirate Parties and the 5star movement did not look so different.
> Granted, Grillo is a clown, but that seems to be more of a condition
> than a problem for entering in Italian politics. So where did it go
> wrong ? Is the 5star movement only paying lip service to new forms of
> democracy and is it just another vehicle to get to power ? Is having a
> figurehead necessary, or contradictory to new forms of politics ? And
> thinking outside the Grillo-grid to be also relevant for Pirate
> Parties: would implementing a new form of democracy happen through
> elections, or rather through Gramscian strategies of taking key
> positions in society and then changing the game rather than  becoming
> best at a game you don't agree with in the first place? As I said, I'm
> confused, thoughts are welcome.
> Jim

Dear Jim,

you are not the only one to be confused? however, here my five cents,
sorry for late reaction.

I do not believe 5star movement to be just another vehicle to get to
power, and I believe Grillo is genuine in his will to swipe away the
sclerotised and corrupted italian ruling class. Moreover, many of the
political points  of the movements are shareable and shared by many
leftist people, like the claim for social wages or cuts to the costs of
politics; while others are frankly worrying, as the biased position
regarding immigrants rights, roma people and the lack of a clear
rejection of Fascism. 

But Grillo is definitely a populist, and again a rich man smartly using
(new) media).He gained popular  favour on the aim of kicking in the ass
the corrupted political cast, but he neglects, IMHO,  the point that
this political class represents the italian society at large more than
we would like to admit, and to change the system is far more difficult
than simply replacing the casta with new young good people. The M5s
militants are mostly decent people animated by good principles, but
matured their political program and capacity in the easy chit-chat of
the emerging social web.  People  which has grown struggling for direct
democracy on the ground, building on the experiences of the sixties and
the 77 movements, occupying in the 90' the universities for months,
animating the network of squatted social centres and self managed
cultural hubs which have constituted the backbone for an alternative
civic and cultural public space in this country (still, while M5s was
supporting - and not creating - his candidature, Stefano Rodota was
establishing the "Constituent for common goods" in the  occupied Teatro
Valle in Rome), these people are aware that direct democracy is a
frustrating struggle  to be combated in the everyday, and to change the
state of things is needed e cultural revolution int the usual practice
of the society at large before or at the same time than in the

Here you find a good critical account of the "Grillist" phenomenon
written by the wu ming collective.
http://www.wumingfoundation.com/english/wumingblog/?p=1950 and why
cannot easily trust this movement as as solution, rather we should
"occupy" its positions and use it as a confrontation ground?


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