nettime's_hungry_ego on Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:59:31 +0200 (CEST)

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<nettime> Empire for Beginners - (collectivized consciousness) [PGalaxy/njett]

   Re: <nettime> Empire for Beginners - by Rob los Ricos                           
     Mediawatch <>                                             

   Re: <nettime> Empire for Beginners - (collectivized consciousness)              
     "N Jett" <>                                                    


Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:14:41 -0400
From: Mediawatch <>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Empire for Beginners - by Rob los Ricos

Message text written by "N Jett"
>Identity leads to Hierarchy leads to Capitalism leads to Empire. So to get

rid of Capitalism/Empire you must get rid of idenity? Is that where this is


I am interested in this discussion because understanding the concept of
'systems boundary' is central to the development of a higher conciousness
for humanity

Which is the kind of shift we need to move the next level of awareness for
human systems to develop constructively

Not get rid of identity perhaps, but certainly get rid of the  'ego' to
some extent.

Rather develop a 'collective' ego which extends beyond the personal, an
allow the individual to extend 
without limits within the undeniable boundary of a physical forms and
objective reality
(if thats what they want)

Assuming that 
Each individual entity
(entity  here is invididual people, and individual nations for example)

is a center of the universe, and individualism cultivates the differences
between entities
that make up personal identities and charachters.

 we must not forget that  individual nature  is only possible beacuse of a
 collective nature exists
(the opposite is also true, but that could be another discussion)

I mean: if I wasnt integral  part of humanity
 (respecting others  is a mandatory precept of this vision)  I could not be
my individual self 

Same for nations, the natural hierarchy should recognize that the interest
of the global community
(not just sections thereof) take priority over the interests of individual

This shift is essential to develop the global consciousness 

A similar effort- establish equilibrium to allow for development -  in fact
is also necessary within each systems boundary.

People must  reconcile different personalities within themselves, like most
countries or religions must reconcile different dynamics - opinions,
interests - within a nation.

It is the principle of ecosystems, where organisms relate to each other
according to functions,
and competition  takes place to reset the equilibrium, once a lack of
balance takes place.

Natural systems tend to be self regulating, human systems dynamics are not
yet quite so clear
to science probaby because intrisically more complex (assuming that humans
are accepted as being more complex than pond life, but that is not always
the case)

So basically, by developing individual identities with full awareness of
their more global collective functions,
then contradictions (antagonism)  between the two is eliminated./reduced.

Identifying individual  goals and aligning them to collective goals may be
a solution that does not
require conflict or pragmatic implementation on behalf of a governing body,
but it is possible through
expanding individual counciousness by embracing collective conciousness 

This is often done via spiritual practice (meditation for example)  and
that is where we need
to integrate practices of self cultivation with practices of collective
cultivation like global  politics and economics

Only by aligning the two extremes along the same axis (alinging the goasl
of the individual entities with the goals of global entities acknowleding
that the purpos of both is the development of humans on the planet)
that all efforts can be optimised

And yes, once social systems goals are aligned and the boundaries of 
objective realities acknowledged,
the doors of  boundless realms can open to the wonders of individual 
realization of the cosmic self, where everthing is possible, and sky is the

deliriously yours

paola di maio


Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 09:36:30 +0000
From: "N Jett" <>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Empire for Beginners - (collectivized consciousness)

"Identifying individual  goals and aligning them to collective goals may be
a solution that does not
require conflict or pragmatic implementation on behalf of a governing body,
but it is possible through
expanding individual counciousness by embracing collective conciousness"

So if everyone would embrace collective consciousness govt. would be 
uncessary? (or would it just become deformalized/converted into "manners and 
Assuming that is what you mean (voluntary acceptance of collective 
consciousness), where does the collective consciousness come from? 
Technology (digitally networked minds perhaps?)?
  And how can individualily be maintained if the "goals" of the individual 
is the product of the collectvized consciousness?
And what of dissent in this proposed "mass mind?" Collective consciousness, 
even voluntarily accepted seems mutually exclusive to individual freedom 
(even of the most basic kind, like how to react to or perceive reality).
I do not want to be a drone in a hive.


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