<nettime> =sniff= digest [porculus|spornitz|elloi|giordano|judson|flagan]

["nettime's_ethereal_list-0//N3R!!!" <nettime@bbs.thing.net>]

Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"
     "porculus" <porculus@wanadoo.fr>
     Bill Spornitz <spornitz@mts.net>
     Morlock Elloi <morlockelloi@yahoo.com>
     domiziana giordano <domiziana@mail.nexus.it>
Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own Mud Pies
     "sorry, this is not real email" <office@plasmastudii.org>
Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"
     Are Flagan <areflagan@mac.com>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "porculus" <porculus@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:59:45 +0200

> The difference between Carnivore and other sniffers is that Carnivore can
> get you detained. If you're unlucky these days, indefinitely without a
> trial. In other words, Carnivore is not just a program, but an integral
> element of a law enforcement strategy.

hihi javol it's like when i make love with my just handcuffed sex partner
and only caped with an ss one myself and when she said 'and now kill me with
your water pistol'..i dont like at all such mauvaise ambiance she did with
so bad joke, but i i have no effort to make i really am herman goering the
great master of the reich hounds and she was a bring back by my bud rommel
gazelle ..i yeal 'between to be an hard muscular polizei panzer carnivore or
an huge crate of grosse limp entartete kultur rhizome vegetable you have to
chose' (in yealing i reach for my water pistol of course cause i am the
greatest master of the millenium reich hounds or what !)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:32:53 -0500
From: Bill Spornitz <spornitz@mts.net>
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"

Is it a piece of software, or is it an API posing as a piece of software?

just a thot
b

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:32:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Morlock Elloi <morlockelloi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"

> The difference between Carnivore and other sniffers is that Carnivore can
> get you detained. If you're unlucky these days, indefinitely without a
> trial. In other words, Carnivore is not just a program, but an integral
> element of a law enforcement strategy.

All those too lazy or too feeble minded to deploy freely available encryption
should be detained and preferably executed or at least sterilized.

Detaining-capable carnivore is a godsent gene pool purification device, a
cyberpunk's wet dream. With some luck we'll lose the stupids.

=====
end
(of original message)

Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows:

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:32:56 +0200
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"
From: domiziana giordano <domiziana@mail.nexus.it>

What is art?
Take two ­three people/ curators/critics and make them talk about  a piece
of shit.
Here it comes a piece of art.
(party time!)

Too late 
Piero Manzoni made it before you in the 60ıs and packed a whole bunch of 90
cans with its own shit.
³Merde dıartista²  ³Artistıs shit²
(excuse the word but  weıre talking about art)
Not shitty art, but artistıs shit.
Big difference.
At least he knew what he was doing.

Loop generation. 
Ok Letıs talk about this.

Carnivore is part of this generation.
Big deal.

What is interesting to me is that the content donıt really matter any longer
What matter is being there, at that very moment.

We are no longer living  in the ³the medium is the language² context.
Thing changes.

We are now inside an implosive isomorphism:  ³the transit is the message².

Makes me think at the Godelıs  theorem.

Dg

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DG / DSI                dsi@DigitalSistersIndeed.org

It was pure bliss
              when I finally achieved silence.


http://www.digitalsistersindeed.org/

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:29:04 -0400
From: "sorry, this is not real email" <office@plasmastudii.org>
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own Mud Pies

>the net art scene has of course become
>inundated with projects that offer a visual and highly anesthetized
>treatment/display of data streams, collected by various methods such as user
>input, network sniffing, search engines, and so on. What seems almost
>collectively to be lacking in this _artistic_ processing are efforts to
>invoke an intelligence at the front end: why those algorithms, this
>appearance, these rules?

It's as if one takes chaos and creates an abstract literal 
translation of the chaos.  But chaos exclusively from a very specific 
computer-sci-fi-world context.

Rather than sculpting the chaos of information from innovative facets 
of life.  And then using those pieces to create coherent 
communication.  Even a Kandinsky expresses SOMETHING and does not 
dwell on the paint itself.  He's a painter, I assume he has thought 
about paint.  I don't need to hear him go on about it though.

For net.art, the net can be one of a million subjects but one thing 
that makes art enjoyable is taking a look at some other world that is 
unlike our own.  Show us there's more to our characters.

The net is saturated with DESTRUCTIVE creativity (taking useful data 
and rendering it useless).  CONSTRUCTIVE creativity would be taking 
the arcane and sculpting meaning.  Often destructiveness just comes 
off as work that failed to be constructive but a failure to be 
destructive is kinda neat.

judson


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PLASMA STUDII
http://plasmastudii.org
223 E 10th Street
PMB 130
New York, NY  10003

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:09:05 -0400
Subject: Re: <nettime> How We Made Our Own "Carnivore"
From: Are Flagan <areflagan@mac.com>

On 6/24/02 12:16 PM, "Helen Evans" <helenevans@pobox.com> wrote:

>> Any critique
>> leveled at the increased surveillance of the network must surely start from
>> the base presumption that the bitstream channels knowledge and not pretty
>> pictures for the screen.
>> 
> 
> here here! how can data be "formed" into useful / political / critical
> information?

That is the question. The lesson of Carnivore (throw in Echelon, too) is
that the FBI has, with some success, developed and implemented a port
sniffing technology that has effectively turned the network into a domain of
monitored speech. (A relevant sidebar: EtherPeek was reviewed in the last
issue of MacWorld, a US consumer magazine that treats the Mac with a
fetish-like fascination. A captioned screen capture announced its LAN
troubleshooting capacity and hinted at the potential of intercepting your
co-workers email!) It seems important to also recall the panoptical effect
here, not only the more direct intervention caused by data interceptions.

Here in the US the slogan has been (and is) "if you have nothing to hide,
you have nothing to worry about" and the technologies legally breaking open
the communication channels of the network for official scrutiny fits this
scheme. However, the importance of front-end processing is clearly
illustrated by Echelon, for example, whose list of key words provides the
ruleset whereby technology is implemented into the social framework and,
especially, its judiciary systems. To ignore the point where data gathering
turns to utility in this respect, as an extension of the social rules of
engagement, seems to overlook the fundamental negotiation taking place.
Ultimately the problem is not with the possibility (or the ability) of
public/private insights but the accountability for its terms and uses; i.e.
its democratic rather than totalitarian potential. Consequently (and
conversely), I don't think the answer is XXX-bit encryption to, once more,
secure pockets of privacy on the Internet, which will no doubt be followed
by more "Carnivores." Is this not the very public debate, initiated by "How
We Made Our Own Carnivore," that wee seek to actually form data (if I may
inject; like this) into something useful? I have learnt a lot through the
debate prompted by RSG. In this respect the(ir) work is still unfolding in a
useful/political/critical direction.

The trouble with net art generally is that it tries so damn hard to become
art by adhering to expectations put in place before its arrival and agendas
forced upon it, by the same institutions, after it came of age. With
reference to the current Carnivore debate (about displaying intelligence as
pleasant visuals), it seems that we have instantly taken several steps
backward, both artistically and critically, without fully noticing. Recall
the contemporary painter who when asked what kind of painting s/he does
replies; "abstract," usually in reference to a certain modernist aesthetic.
The point is that when this particular branch of modernism developed it was,
despite its empty color fields and sloppy drips, a highly conceptual slap in
the face of convention (before doxa once more embraced it). For net artists
to make "pictures," honestly seems to be in line with painters who now paint
"abstract." Of course, Napier and Simon Jr., for example, "paint" very well,
but this is primarily what they do; they do not explicitly attempt to
grapple with social issues.

-af

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net