RE: Re: <nettime> NATOsevic

["Jim Andrews" <jim@vispo.com>]

Thomas,

I don't think my post, to which you are replying below, made it onto
nettime for some reason. Perhaps it slipped through the cracks? Would be
nice if that were posted.

I will respond to your message below now.

> But I also believe that a lot of what happened in the
> Balkan in the
> last decade was purely the NATO trying to get control over, not
> peace for a
> region in Europe. The war that I meant Yugoslavia still to be
> involved in is
> this aggression from outside and a partly stimulated rebellion
> from inside.

I have no idea what the strategic value of, or the business
opportunities are in Yugoslavia. I think it likely that NATO would have
its own agenda, rather than seeking simply to depose a despot and
intervene in butchery.  Certainly the bombings did at least as much harm
to all concerned, also in the long run, given the amount of depleted
uranium rained down not only on Serbia but Kosovo (it is highly toxic
when breathed or ingested, and was turned into dust upon exploding).

> Again, my believe is that Milosevic has to be overcome, and I do not
> think that the rebelling people in Yugoslavia are just under control
> of the NATO, unable to see their government in the right light.

In such case, support of the student movement, particularly via the net,
which is my medium as a writer (and yours too, I believe, and probably
most of the people on this list), is appropriate then, is it not? The
student movement is grassroots, ie, of the Serbian people themselves,
not instigated from without, as you say.

> In my view, Milosevic and also the Serbian population, in western
> media until recently, were forced into the role of the bad guy
> systematically, even though this role probably suits Milosevic better
> than any other famous politician right now. The
> Rambuillet(?)-contracts that were offered to him before the war are a
> good example. Should be found somewhere in the net, I am sure. These
> contracts were a joke because no politician, dictator or not, would
> just give up the souverignity over his state as it was demanded in
> these contracts. Milosevic is not just a dictator but he also refused
> to cooperate with the good guys, the NATO. Which leads to what my fear
> is: Milosevic will be overcome in the next years and his regime will
> not leave a vacuum of power which could be filled by the people,
> discussing freely by which means they want to be governed and how the
> economy should be organized, but he will be followed by a democratic
> and NATOcratic or western-liberalistocratic regime. Without any
> discussion, free market and free trade-exchange will be installed for
> the sake and the fortune of the Northern-European states.

Russia is a strong example, at least for now, of how democracy may fail
a people. There is no history of it in Russia. It is tragic (again). Is
there history of it in Yugoslavia? Tito kept Yugoslavia together via
communism and military presence for many years. What political order
existed before that?  Was it stable?

It is unlikely that NATO would permit communism to rise again in
Yugoslavia, or would do its best to avert such a situation.

What I have read at www.otpor.com situates the students as perceiving
themselves as part of the west.

> My wish is that not only the regime-in-work should be discussed or
> fought against but also the regime-to-come. The background on which
> Milosevic and his government are measured against is not a white sheet
> of paper (URL about:blank) or true freedom but Northern-European
> capitalistic democracy.  And because the latter system tries for its
> economic and ideologic profit to crash the order of the Yugoslavian
> state, I want anybody who is against Milosevic and his gang and is
> critical about the keeper of the sacred North-Western ideology to
> speak out loud the BUT in his solidarity with the rebellion in
> Yugoslavia. I am against Milosevis BUT I don't want him to be
> overthrown just for the sake of free markets in the Northern-style. I
> just don't want anybody who shares my view or scepticism to forget the
> BUT, because it is not all freedom that brightens the Yugoslavian
> horizon, it might also be some electric light made by gigantic
> companies in their nuclear power stations seeking for new and
> uncritical customers.

The people in the country itself are really the ones who must decide for
themselves what sort of future they wish for themselves. That is what
you support in supporting a grass roots movement such as Otpor!

> I hope I made myself more clear, and please excuse the looong and for
> that reason hardly readable sentences, I am German and can't help it.

Your English is infinitely better than my German, Thomas.

> Thanks for your reply, Jim.

You also, Thomas. It would be great to have some people with much
greater knowledge than we do of the situation to join in this
discussion.

Regards,
Jim

#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net