integer on Sat, 2 Feb 2002 16:37:02 +0100 (CET)

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[Nettime-bold] Re: Image/ine - thanks

John Phillips <>

>Excellent effort by Marco Kosnik to put things in some perspective! His
>comments are to a larger entity than the personal desires and swollen egos
>so often represented on this list.

dearest [bl!nk] John Phillips

many many have those been demonstrated 
[i wear engleska l!ke 01 tomato dresz]
god exists negatively

and ...

nn has in recent times 
that negatively the self exists as well
tingle tangled.

allora ...  with mirrors we are left.

i mustnt remind to you that the mirror
has the greatest invention been humans
have had the pleasure of constructing 
must i +?

for the very 1st time - zum ersten mal
daaaaaa. did 01 human regard that which
it viewed as more authentic than that
which it thought.

und tzo va!ter.

>Thank you

if you gaze in 201 looking glass + whisper `thank you`
will the mirror smile back in 2 you +?

will then the strands of loosened hair 
surround you - like 01 vessel 
pouring into you. overflowing you.
to the higher basins - just you to ripen.

breaking off your arms - hand by hand.
lingering in your mouth 
without feet
hearing your name
swearing your name
extinguishing you





are you then the all +?

i yearn 2 b held.



             \            \/       i should like to be a human plant
            \/       __
                                   i will shed leaves in the shade
        \_\                        because i like stepping on bugs

Netochka Nezvanova         

   n  r  .   5        !!!
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- --*--*--*--*--*--*--

>From: marko kosnik <>
>To: <>
>Mime-version: 1.0
>Precedence: bulk
>X-UIDL: Q61!!9"f"!:]m"!?a=!!
>and others interested in the future of live video art.
>(the ones on the list who get a headache when seeing more then 10 lines per
>message might consider to skip to the last three paragraphs)
>i am using imag/ine since it's early beginning and i was following nato
>since it's appearance, last year i am composing my own solutions in nato
>i want once loudly and publicly to congratulate and say thanks to tom
>demeyer, who developed imag/ine out of his own fingers and to steina vasulka
>(no matter what wrong reply button she is pressing on her machine in the
>last days) to inspire development of the program and stand for it at steim
>during her artistic directorship.
>i am welcoming the fact netoscka is seating at steim in the same seat that
>steina had left not such a long time ago.
>and, i want to thank to netoscka and nato developers for an incredible
>environment in which i can test more relations and combinations of whatever
>moving image, processed in relation to sound, meta - calculations or
>interfaces i could "imag/ine" before.
>when imag/ine beta version was presented at steim in december 1996 being
>controlled by steina playing her midi violin, i was seating two meters from
>her with a task to change between different presets. it was a necessary
>help, since the program was not yet incorporating what is called "display
>states" nowadays. and guess what, i had developed simple patches in max,
>just to switch on the fly some settings which steina wanted to pass through
>during her performance. no matter what wishes i had at that time, tom's
>answer was straight: i want imag/ine to fully occupy the processor of the
>machine on which it is running. i want to squeeze out the most for video
>processing and what is needed for live control. if you want more, use
>another computer or whatever other device you prefer.
>at that time the fastest mac you could find was running 120 mghz 604e
>processor, 150 and 180 were just coming out. and one of the most over -
>hyped words that you can hear today - "veejee" was yet to be invented.
>five years later, with nato modular, theoretically you could run a universe
>of tasks: draw vector graphic, travel some 3d spaces, analyse and interpret
>video and audio input, buffer video and sound on the fly and process it back
>under midi commands, remixing media files streamed from internet and serve
>them back at the same time... but in reality, on one machine, when only
>processing video in three layers, you will not get much more then 320x240 at
>12,5 frames per second on your g4 in 2002. not true? we were doing the same
>in 1997 in imag/ine, but in 16 bit resolution. today it can run in millions
>of colours, but think before twice what "offscreen.grafport.(re)size" means
>in nato, and better switch it to half for all the objects that listen to
>this command (160x120 pixels in this case). you COULD run so much more of
>the rest. still, you better connect more machines to get it in reality, or
>in what we call by a wrong and miss - interpreted word "real time".
>i can't state there would be no nato without imag/ine. but i can state i
>would not use nato today to sample a dancer live to display her back
>processed on the same stage where she is dancing, doing so from one machine
>which i control as an instrument. i will choose imag/ine in this case, cause
>it is optimised for doing right this.
>let us make one thing clear once forever on this list. imag/ine and nato are
>in no way concurrent pieces of code. the first is an application specialised
>to perform as an instrument very analogue to what lisa is doing on the sound
>level (live sampling and on the fly interpretation captured material), the
>second is a multipurpose environment which is opening alternative access,
>modulations and variations to all the layers of quicktime, embedded in max
>environment. true, you can come very close when you would try to build a
>copy of what imag/ine does in nato, even though it does not make such a
>sense - but still - can you get several simultaneous outputs from the same
>242.buffer? the answer is no at the present. and indeed, such a question
>should never bother someone who is not interested in keying two images with
>the third one all of them being just six frames apart of what had just been
>captured trough the video camera. (and please, don't suggest me to do the
>same in the 242.buffer2 ...
>all this writing i am willing to compose for one reason. neue generat!e
>needs to know the history of alternative moving images as much as the old
>generation of pioneers has to brake the fears and start exchanging their
>knowledge louder and with the broader access to their materials. and, when
>always too small community of people in this world, interested in creating
>music and moving images for something more then just entertainment
>show-business or political propaganda, will not grasp with each other in
>more open way - then forget max/msp/nato/supercolider/lisa/imag/ine running
>your double g5 2ghz on osx 11 - but right there, right at that time indeed
>it could be running in parallel on one machine (or on an network streaming
>media files via firewire). if i was talking for six years into the past,
>don't think i am foreseeing more then three years in the future with this
>trivial announcement.
>it makes me sad when i guess it will take more years to get steina and
>netoscka seating at the same table laughing to their past misunderstandings
>then it will take apple and motorola (well, this one could sink in the
>meanwhile, probably it will be ibm then) to put on a table the machine and
>system mentioned above.
>it is a too small world of artistic vision nowadays and too limited human
>resources to produce some more sensitive reality but the brutal consumerism
>we are sinking in.
>"we" can not afford to play art generation games (like some writers in 19
>century or composers in 18 century to push on the "progress") without paying
>the price with the darker future then the one which is about to come anyway.
>"we" want it all optimised and all running on system "five minutes past
>twelve". and then, once on unix, "we" know what letter it is only missing in
>the rebus made out of this word.
>also sprach zarafrustra.
>marko kosnik

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