Paul D. Miller on Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:22:58 +0200 (CEST)

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[Nettime-bold] resending.... from hypertext to codework

Hey Ken -
1) Artaud - relatively decent Artaud sites:

and the Artaud reference can be found in the "Theater and It's 
Double" at the beginning of the section entitled "The Theater and its 

around p.49 in the edition I have "la realite virtuelle" - 1938.... 
in the section called the "theater and it's shadow" or something like 
that... the original context was that humans were inundated with life 
as symbolic reality... both me and Erik Davis deal with this in our 
respective writings on the topic.

2) There's plenty of room for figuring out how Walter Ong's ideas of 
orality and text flow together, his book "Orality and Literacy: the 
Technologizing of the Word"  remains a pretty good glimpse into how 
words became "the noetic navigation of places" - but words assign 
place and meaning on-line, but in the world of stuff like Amos 
Tutualoa or John Lee (the black hacker on the cover of Wired a long 
time ago who was into the whole language as cipher-text etc etc his 
crew was called "The Masters of Deception"), it'd be nifty to figure 
out on how mantras etc etc fit into this too....

3) your idea that "everything Alan does is a proposition on how to 
read..." - well, yep, but again, it's the permutations of the process 
that make reading him interesting. Otherwise, no disrespect to Alan, 
it'd be like listening to the same beat over and over and over... 
even the linguistic origins of jazz (from the French verb "jazzer" - 
which means to "have a dialog") - still pertains to what you spoke 
about.Some of this relates basically as the "lowest common 
denominator" kind of scenario to the "sequencing/spatializing" of the 
word that Ong deals with, but again, there's plenty of stuff like 
that in electronic music at this point... There's a couple of great 
treatments of that topic in Robert Farris Thompson's classic "Flash 
of the Spirit"...

4) yep, I agree about mixing styles and genres... in academia, there 
are rules and regulations about this kind of thing - and keeping the 
boundaries between "zones" in this day and age is getting more and 
more problematic, but I have a feeling the next generation of folks 
will all look at this kind of thing as a video game or hypertext of a 
kind of collaborative filtering or something... if you still have 
that article around (the one on language and whatnot with henry louis 
gates etc etc) we're still working on getting 21C started up - I've 
been travelling alot, and that's slowed things down..... Let me know 
if you'd be into re-publishing it or something. I'm going to set up 
the web version of the magazine first and deal with the print in a 
little bit ( is up and running, but again, there's 
only 24 hours in the day... I have a decent amount of articles from 
various folks, but I need about two weeks of down-time - which I'm 
taking in mid-October - to finalize everything... more on that in a 
peace from Florida

>Thanks to Paul for
>his remarks, but i
>think, as they say,
>i want to break it
>  >the problem with
>the digital media
>scene - it is
>there is alot more
>going on....
>Yes, but when it
>comes to entities
>like antiorp or
>jodi, is it
>all that useful to
>pose things in
>this old
>  >think about
>precedents for
>theater and
>spectacle outside
>of the >normal
>discourse that
>goes on...
>Yes, but i don't
>quite have the
>freedom of
>movement that
>do, Paul. As an
>artist, you can cut
>and mix in a way
>that one can't
>in scholarship. Its
>not the medium,
>its the genre.
>  >this is a Mcluhan
>refraction of the
>old inner
>  > ear/eye thing,
>but with a little bit
>more of a
>technical twist.
>Always been
>skeptical about
>that aspect of
>McLuhan, but I
>think Ong is
>useful here. He
>talks of
>'secondary orality',
>is the orality that
>arises within a
>literate culture,
>but i think
>there is also now
>a 'secondary
>literacy', the
>literacy that arises
>within an
>  > Artaud  was the
>fellow who
>invented the term
>"virtual reality"
>Oh really?
>Where? [scholar
>mode] "We must
>awaken the Gods
>that sleep in
>museums." Yes,
>Artaud is a good
>handle for
>the global media
>event. My first
>book already
>covers all this.
>  > this in itself is
>one of the major
>developments of
>  > century culture:
>the ability not just
>to accept the
>  > regulations of a
>situation (again,
>Debord meets
>Grand Master
>  > Flash...) - but to
>constantly change
>them. This is one
>of the major
>  > issues that
>Henry Louis
>Gates wrote
>about in his
>  > Monkey"  essay
>a long while ago
>Yes, i once wrote
>an essay on
>Gates' signifying
>monkey and
>Skooly D, who
>has a great rap
>about the
>monkey, the
>and the fat-assed
>pimp. Needless
>to say i couldn't
>get it
>  > Alan Sondheim
>  > perhaps the
>equivalent  of an
>MC for Nettime
>Alan posts to a lot
>of lists and does
>a lot of other stuff
>so i don't think he
>would want
>anyone to see his
>stuff here as
>But i think that's a
>nice take on it.
>Sondheim as
>an MC of sense,
>of affect, cutting
>and mixing the
>letter to that
>effect. Everything
>Alan does is a
>proposition about
>how to
>  >but again, the
>  > could and
>should be
>expanded at this
>Its your job to
>think like that,
>Paul, some of us
>have to work in
>a different kind of
>time. Its not about
>slow or fast, but
>rhythms (all
>rhythms are the
>same speed as
>they all get you
>there in the end).
>Its about being
>untimely. Mixing
>past and
>present is
>another kind of
>mix. Blake and
>Integer. What is in
>that edit? I don't
>see it as
>invalidated by the
>other edits it
>passes over in
>  > 1) multi-cultural
>variations in
>You're an
>American, Paul, to
>That's fine, but it
>is not the
>definition of
>multiplicity with
>which the rest of
>the world
>works. I'm not so
>keen on the
>compression of
>down to this
>narrow plane so
>as to squeeze it
>bandwidth. The
>celebration of
>going on right
>now is a
>reminder of just
>conceptions of
>difference are in
>the United States.
>  > multi cultural
>takes on this are
>alot more fun...
>Well they would
>be, but American
>much of a
>multiplicity. I find
>it tone-deaf to
>'patois' that isn't
>minted locally.
>And look at the
>basis on which
>other kinds
>of multiplicity are
>annexed to its
>needs: the
>the Black Atlantic
>and so on. All well
>and good, but in
>the long run just
>variations on the
>image of America
>in the world.
>So: there's a
>problem with the
>scene, its
>N. But, again, its
>not a criticism of
>Paul, but just
>indiciative of the
>difficulty of
>working in this
>place and time.
>Its hard to see the
>context, and how
>context shapes
>the discourse.
>Thanks for the
>urls, which i'm
>looking at and
>learning from.


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Paul D. Miller a.k.a. Dj Spooky that Subliminal Kid

Subliminal Kid Inc.

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